Session Start: Sat Dec 06 20:17:39 1997
*** Now talking in #HKLUG
*** vincent sets mode: +o vincent
Session Close: Sat Dec 06 20:29:09 1997

Session Start: Sat Dec 06 20:29:16 1997
*** Now talking in #HKLUG
*** vincent sets mode: +o vincent
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<lezbouf> hello...
<vincent> Hello!!
<vincent> (Gosh.. finally found someone join our meeting...)
<lezbouf> what are we going to talk about today
<vincent> Pls wait...
<vincent> What is your name?
<lezbouf> zep
<vincent> I forgot to say, please use your english name or name on the app form to identify yourself
<lezbouf> let me change the nickname first
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<Dennis> # Appears as LANCE.
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<vincent> Hello Dennis!
<Zephyr> Hi!
<Dennis> (#G6:0E510M1) Hello Vincent!
<vincent> Our topics today:
<Dennis> (#G010E810M1) Has the meeting started already?
<vincent> 1) Discuss our yearly plan
<vincent> 2) Discuss our monthly plan/to do list
<vincent> 3) Formation of teams & sub-groups. (e.g. WebDev, Promotion, X-Win etc.)
<vincent> 4) After discussed the above topics, any other topics we can think of.
<vincent> Generally, discuss our long term and short term goals.
<Dennis> So ... what is the status now?
<Zephyr> no committe members are here
<vincent> Upto now, it is..
<Dennis> Hi Zephyr!
<vincent> I know it is a problem to gather large number of people at a regular interval..
<Zephyr> Hi Dennis.
<Zephyr> but at least committe should show up
<Dennis> Maybe we could introduce ourselves first??
<vincent> Yes, it is a good idea.
<vincent> Keep it short please, within 5 mins.
<Dennis> My name is Dennis. I work in HK bank as programmer. How about you two?
<Zephyr> I'm zephyr. Studying HD in CITYU. Play linux for 3-4 months.
<vincent> I'm Vincent, working in an Advertising Agent as a multi-purpose Solutions Manager (<- so called). It is 
  going to be an Internet Presense Provider, too. 
<vincent> I'm 20, played Linux for 1.5 yrs, Internet for 3 yrs. :)
<Zephyr> very experienced user
<Dennis> I use Linux for a year but am still a novice.
<vincent> 1.5 yrs only, not very experienced. I mainly concentrate on Internet servers.
<vincent> Ok now?
<vincent> Start our meeting topics now..
<vincent> 1) Discuss our yearly plan
<vincent> 2) Discuss our monthly plan/to do list
<vincent> 3) Formation of teams & sub-groups. (e.g. WebDev, Promotion, X-Win etc.)
<vincent> 4) After discussed the above topics, any other topics we can think of.
<Zephyr> misc question... can i use groff to format a table like those in word ?
<vincent> Sorry I dunno. 
<Dennis> Nor do I.
<vincent> Next time, please use /msg <username> <message> to send private message for that kind of problem.
<Zephyr> sorry!
<vincent> I'm recording the log for this meeting, we better don't get too much personal talks here. :)
<vincent> We do put the log on the web!
<Zephyr> yes, i know that, sorry
<Dennis> So, what is our yearly plan?
<vincent> I'm very sorry to say that I didn't prepared well before helding the meeting, so I only send the 
  announcement in a hurry.
<vincent> We're going to discuss it now.
<vincent> I'll try my best.
<vincent> Firstly, for more interest, we can talk about the yearly plan on our Web Site.
<Dennis> Thank you for your hard work, Vincent.
<vincent> I hope I can do much better, I'm keeping learning that. :>
<vincent> What do you think we must have on our Web site after this year?
<Zephyr> logo
<vincent> Ok, recording.
<vincent> It's a general goal.
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<vincent> lost connection...
<Zephyr> left two now
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<Dennis> # Appears as LANCE.
<vincent> Usually, some of them came after 9:00pm... :(
<vincent> Ok we should have a logo... 
<vincent> Just give us any ideas...
<Zephyr> guides for new linux user
<vincent> Recording...
<Dennis> Some useful linux links.
<Zephyr> how to obtain...install...config...using...administration
<vincent> That is guides, not only for new user.
<Zephyr> i think since this is HKLUG, there should have both chinese and english
<vincent> OK..
<vincent> I also think of:
<vincent> We should have varies topics of sub-sections and groups
<vincent> with varies Discussion Forums
<vincent> We should have an online registration form on the web.
<vincent> - Introduction of Linux: history and background
<vincent> Searching Directory service for members: to search another member(s) 
  information [Limited]
<vincent> Please keep ideas on special elements...
<Dennis> How about a CD library to share Linux CD among members?
<vincent> CD library.... what do you think we'll have in the CD?
<Zephyr> that 's great
<vincent> yes, what's inside that CD?
<Zephyr> apps
<Dennis> Sorry, I mean a place just to share different Linux distributions' CDs 
   with other members.
<Zephyr> internet utilities
<Dennis> Not made by our own.
<vincent> Ok... drop it down first..
<vincent> We'll think the possibilities later.
<vincent> writing CD isn't a hard job...
<vincent> Distributors directory? It means it is a link only.
<Dennis> But we have to seek permission from the author first.
<vincent> Some of them are under GNU Public License..
<vincent> And sure, we should ask the authors for some applications.
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<[DoM]> ah.
<[DoM]> ha.
<vincent> Hello DoM!
<[DoM]> :)
<Dennis> Hi.
<[DoM]> Hi
<Zephyr> hello
<vincent> our topics:
<vincent> Now, is discussing our yearly plan.
<vincent> What should we completed after a whole year.
<vincent> Now concentrating on our homepage.
<vincent> Ah yes, we should have our own domain name and our own e-mail 
  addresses for members. :)
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<sailorV> 反川
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<vincent> Wew...
<Dennis> BTW, have we found any sponsor for the web site?
<vincent> For the web SERVER, my boss will sponsor us.
<Dennis> Excellent.
<vincent> We can use my company's Internet connection for our web site.
<vincent> Yes, we should find some corp. members.
<vincent> To sponsor us.
<vincent> Hello!!!!
<Dennis> Here.
<vincent> For your reference, we can use Hong Kong Computer Society as our 
  reference.
<vincent> http://www.hkcs.org.hk/
<Dennis> What do you mean by reference?
<vincent> I want to say, we should use it as our group's future goal. :)
<vincent> If our group can be as LARGE as this group, then we can called 
  successful. :)
<Zephyr> how many members do it have ?
<vincent> Too bad they haven't mentioned, but check their past activities, 
  they're all professionals.
<Dennis> But we should promote the use of Linux in HK first.
<vincent> Yes, step by step.
<vincent> But we should at least have an ultimate goal at the begining, without 
  a goal, we'll lost our direction.
<vincent> Promotion is one of the task we need to do inorder to let the public 
  regonize our group.
<vincent> Ok, back to the topic..
<vincent> Everybody HERE?
<Dennis> Yes, I'm here.
<vincent> hmm... IRC is very hard to control people, too.
<vincent> The meeting will be a waste of time if everyone goes to other places.
<Dennis> So, any better way?
<vincent> Use e-mail will get NO response, direct face to face meeting is much 
  harder to contact people.
*** Laputa80 (~http://home.netvigator.com/~laputa80@208.139.107.43) has joined 
#HKLUG
<vincent> None of them is perfect, hope it'll go easier.
*** vincent changes topic to ""Hong Kong Linux User Group""
<Zephyr> sorry
*** vincent changes topic to ""Hong Kong Linux User Group Meeting""
<Dennis> Hi Laputa80.
<Laputa80> hi dennis
<vincent> Laputa, are you Linux user?
<Laputa80> nope ^_^
<Laputa80> What kind of meeting here?
<[DoM]> oh
<vincent> oo.. we're having a meeting discussing our Linux User Group. 
<[DoM]> hah
<Laputa80> can u tell me what is Linux?
<[DoM]> yup
<vincent> I think it'll quite boring for you here..
<[DoM]> ohh?
<[DoM]> what is linux?
<[DoM]> I've installed linux on my NB
<vincent> It is an Operating System like UNIX.
<[DoM]> but it have many problems..:~~
<Laputa80> =D
<vincent> ok.. keep less private chats..
<[DoM]> anyone have experience on setting PCMCIA network card under linux?
*** Zephyr (~lezbouf@144.214.5.243) has left #HKLUG
-> *Laputa* Laputa, if you're interested to install Linux, please contact me by 
   e-mail. I'm vincent@aibi.net
<vincent> Ok.. pls no more private talks, we'll continue our topic.
<vincent> Currently we're planning to do on our web site:
<vincent> Web site:
<vincent> + Introduction of Linux: history & background
<vincent> + Online Registration on our web
<vincent> + sub-sections for interest groups
<vincent> + Discussion areas
<vincent> + Guides [Novice/Advance] (Zephyr)
<vincent> + Links (Zephyr)
<vincent> + Chinese/English versions (Zephyr)
<vincent> + Searching Directory service for members: to search another member(s)
<vincent> limited information.
<vincent> + Own domain name for members
<[DoM]> :)
<Laputa80> bye all ^_^
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<[DoM]> hmm
<vincent> Can you think about more?
<[DoM]> conference?
<vincent> Real-Time?
<vincent> CAN we have?
<[DoM]> where'z sammy?
<vincent> He's busy today.
<[DoM]> ic
<vincent> AH....
<vincent> We should have our own IRC server...
<[DoM]> hmm
<[DoM]> haha
<[DoM]> it is not neccessary...:)
<vincent> Ok, recording.
<[DoM]> hah
<vincent> ah... pls explain. :)
<[DoM]> hmm
<[DoM]> it'z better if we goto efnet and have a channel
<[DoM]> this server ....
<vincent> For a slower connection speed?
<[DoM]> hmm
<[DoM]> not really slow.. but it is better to attach people...
<vincent> hmm .. ok, you're right.
<[DoM]> and we've got a channel in efnet #hkbbs for a long time..
<vincent> wait.
<vincent> #hklug on efnet maybe our gathering place, we do need a private irc 
  server for our meetings.
<vincent> We don't need disturb for our meeting!
<[DoM]> hmm
<[DoM]> just setit up..
<[DoM]> it is not difficult .
<vincent> Yes, it's in our yearly plan.
<[DoM]> ircd can work under win95
<[DoM]> how can we get a perm ip and connection?
<Dennis> I think the cost would be a concern for a private irc server?
<vincent> Seems I've said that I got a server on the net now.
<[DoM]> hmm
<vincent> :)
<[DoM]> the ama?
<vincent> animenet.com.hk
<[DoM]> i c.. yea.
<[DoM]> so just build it up.:)~
<[DoM]> heh..
<vincent> Yes, we have the resources, we have the connection, and if we have the 
  expertises, we can do everything other user group can't.
<vincent> We are experts!
<[DoM]> heh..cool..
<vincent> i.e. we CAN do everything THEY don't know how to do! HAHA!
<[DoM]> is animenet.com.hk get a T1 to HKIX?
<vincent> So, show our power.
<vincent> No, though.
<[DoM]> 128k?
<vincent> 128k now, will move to my company's network (also 128k)
<[DoM]> wow.. i c.
<vincent> My company may going to apply for a PNETS license for a T1 to HKIX.
<vincent> Ok, no need to worry for too much.
<[DoM]> wa..rich company..:D~
<vincent> Not a rich company, but a company willing to DEVELOP.
<vincent> OK come back...
<[DoM]> :)
<[DoM]> k
<vincent> Any more you can think of? Especially outside the Internet. Maybe to 
  the public relation.
<vincent> Or own adminstration.
<vincent> Ok, perhaps a News Letter?
<[DoM]> hmm
<vincent> It's our YEARLY plan, remember.
<[DoM]> newsletter...
<vincent> Not going to do in a short period of time.
<[DoM]> yes..
<vincent> Or, a regular out going meeting/gathering party.
<[DoM]> find more member..
<[DoM]> hmm
<[DoM]> how many ppl had joined this group?
<vincent> checking..
<[DoM]> :)
<vincent> Around 25
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<[DoM]> cool
<vincent> There're actually 7 more applying, I'm processing the application
<G-Force> Hello... all
<vincent> Hello G-Force!
<[DoM]> meeting is neccessary..:)
<vincent> We're talking about our yearly plan
<[DoM]> gimme the application.. i'm the promotion director ma..haha
<vincent> yeah...
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<vincent> I forgot, sorry, these days I'm quite busy. I need to manage my time 
  well.
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<vincent> Hello IHXO!
<IHXO> hello ....
<IHXO> how's the meeting .. ? ^_^
<[DoM]> :)
<vincent> We're discussing about our yearly plans. What we should do in the 
  coming year.
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<IHXO> icic ... any clue??
<vincent> I'm going to put it on the web.
<[DoM]> what is our temporary web site for hklug?
<vincent> Oh you dunno? I posted it to all our members ga wor.
<vincent> www.animenet.com.hk/hklug
<[DoM]> my friend just ask me about that.
<[DoM]> :)
<vincent> Very temporary.
<G-Force> had mail-list on HKLUG now?
<vincent> hklug@animenet.com.hk
<[DoM]> :O
<vincent> You should be the member wor, G-Force. What's your e-mail address?
<G-Force> How can i join the mail-list?
<G-Force> gordonluk@geocities.com
<vincent> G-Force, you should be in the mailing list ga wor..
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<G-Force> But i hadn't rec. any mail. ???
<vincent> Let me check it later, G-Force.
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<vincent> Send me an e-mail, G-Force: vincent@aibi.net, include your e-mail 
  address, please.
<G-Force> ok.. thanks.
<vincent> Uploading the report...
<vincent> non-finished report of this meeting, you can always check it online.
<IHXO> seems the meeting is not so active ....
<vincent> Sorry I'm updating the current report, but everybody can continue the 
  discussion on our yearly plan.
<vincent> Just express ANY idea you think we must do in the coming year, like 
  we've talked about: newsletters, logo, online registration for new memebrs, 
  etc, etc.
<vincent> If you don't talk, we got no input, then we can't have any output.
<IHXO> yeah .. whatz the logo ?? ^_^ ..
<[DoM]> .
<vincent> We'll discuss it later, just speak the ideas FIRST!
<[DoM]> hmm.
<IHXO> okok ...
<IHXO> any idea ?? ...
<vincent> To all people: you can always check what I've recorded down at here: 
  http://www.animenet.com.hk/hklug/meetings/
<vincent> http://www.animenet.com.hk/h
<Dennis> Talks for Linux beginners?
<vincent> http://www.animenet.com.hk/hklug/meetings
<vincent> Dennis, you mean a seminar TALK for Linux beginners?
<Dennis> I mean in small scale only.
<vincent> It's also possible, I'll record it down.
<vincent> What do you mean by small scale?
<IHXO> >_< can we have our own newsgroup ?? ^_^ ..
<vincent> Ok, own newsgroup.. writting.
<vincent> Dennis: you mean like in a small tutorial room in universities?
<IHXO> but .. where should we put it ??
<[DoM]> hmm
<vincent> IHXO, better rename your name to Ben... 
<Dennis> Oh... that sounds too serious for me.
<vincent> Too series already??? :)
<vincent> Well.. Then maybe some IRC tutorials? :)
<IHXO> ok . ^_^ ..
<vincent> Let's record it down, introduction seminar on real tutorial rooms, or IRC.
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<Dennis> But it is impossible to do demonstrations on irc.
<vincent> Yes.. hard to do this, but still is possible. Like I'm publishing the current reports on the web by 
  uploading data on the web.
<G-Force> how about weekly news? send to other newsgroup.
<vincent> Weekly news on newsgroup. You mean publish our meeting reports on newsgroup? That's a good idea on 
  promoting, thanks G-Force.
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<vincent> Then, we should have a secretary... really. To correct the english.. :)
<Ben> hi...
<vincent> Ben, you can change nick name by /nick command wor.
<Ben> I know .. but I am not too famiiliar with that ...
*** vincent is now known as vin
<vin> ok..
*** vin is now known as vincent
<vincent> Pls, continue for any ideas? :)
<vincent> Too bad, I think tonight we can only discuss the yearly plan <- part of, only.
<vincent> I'll need to continue this topic on our mailing list, as it is a very serious strategy planning for our 
  group.
<[DoM]> Can the secretary is the idiot in linux?
<Ben> I think the secretary will be bored to death ....
<vincent> Not really..
<[DoM]> hah
<[DoM]> coz my gf wanna be the secretary
<vincent> If the secretary is familar with Linux then it's good. But it is not necessary. 
<Ben> icic ...hahha..
<vincent> If he/she is not familar with Linux, then it'll need an extra process for him/her to confirm the 
  written document with the committees.
*** Ben is now known as IHXO
<IHXO> haha... can't change back  tim .. ^_^; ..
*** IHXO is now known as Ben
<Ben> did it .. ^_^ ..
<vincent> We'll end at 10:30pm. Please continue.
<vincent> How about, any idea on public relationships?
<vincent> or member's communications
<vincent> or benefits to provide for members?
<Ben> wai . can we have a place for Linux software in the homepage ?
<Ben> coz finding the rite software for linux is quite hard ...
<Dennis> Can we have special discount on group order of Linux CDs?
<vincent> Preferable for links.
<vincent> Ben: Prefer links, but if the link is slow, we can put the software inside our server.
<vincent> Ben: to reduce our bandwidth.
<vincent> Dennis: yes, if we can find some shops or distributors to sponsor us.
<Ben> I think Linux CD is not a problem .. once U got the first CD . U could download / update your kernel 
   directly from the web easily ...
<vincent> Yes, but to form relationship with shops, companies or other organization is also important.
<Ben> what I said software corner is not to put the software in the server .. but to have a link to the software 
   / download ...
<Dennis> Buying Linux CD also help the Linux development!
<vincent> Ben: Sure, it's in the links area.
<vincent> Dennis: yes..
<vincent> Dennis: But help the Linux to getting to distribute, not development. :)
<vincent> Dennis: some how, maybe both..
<Ben> It should be stand alone part ...
<vincent> Ben: Ok, index our links.
<vincent> the result is.
<Ben> yeah .. like www.windows95.com ...
<vincent> yes, possibly. :)
<vincent> Try our best la.
<Ben> ok .. ^_^ ...
<vincent> ideas ideas... :) 5 mins left.
<G-Force> put all member screenshot on web. ha...
<vincent> haha?
<vincent> ok, it'll be included in the Member's database.
<Ben> screenshot ?? what do U mean by that ?
<vincent> photo
<Ben> X-win ?
<G-Force> X-win...
<G-Force> because more user also think, linux = dos mode.
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<vincent> Ok.. promote X-Win.
<Ben> much powerful than that ..
<vincent> oo.. voidoo, you come so late! :(
<voidoo> slept, sorry
<Ben> haha.. time to end lar ... good morning ...
<voidoo> to tired
<vincent> The meeting is gotta end.
<voidoo> this is working life
<voidoo> just come to have a look
<vincent> I think I really need to distribute the topics we're going to discuss and gather suggestions in the 
  mailing list AGAIN.
<Ben> yeah .. there maybe more idea there ..
<vincent> I have a question, any of you received our meeting announcement so you came?
<Dennis> Yes, I did.
<vincent> Yes, I also think that some of our discussions should - mainly - on the mailing list.
<Ben> yeah I recved ...
<vincent> But I think there are not much people writting on the mailing list.
<vincent> Thanks, it means the mailing list has no problem...
<voidoo> how about the reply problem?
<vincent> reply problem?
<voidoo> I haven't test it for long ( too busy)
<voidoo> it only reply to the sender but noth the mail list
<voidoo> which mail list program you use (vincent?
<Ben> I am dead buzy this week and week b4 .... so no time for discussion ... sorry ....
<vincent> Majordomo, how to let it do this?
<voidoo> oh,
<voidoo> no idea
<voidoo> haven't use
<vincent> OK, I'll try to check it.
<voidoo> need to ask in another mail list :P
<Ben> BTW: .vincent .. can U remove the un from the unofficial HKLUG homepage ??
<Ben> It should be official by now ...
<voidoo> I always just write a news mail list program via perl
<vincent> Ok... :)
<vincent> ok ok :>
<Ben> also start to put our website on the search engines ...
<vincent> To all: The not-completed report result on this 2 hours meeting is at:
<vincent> http://www.animenet.com.hk/hklug/meetings/report/004-report.txt
<voidoo> ha
<vincent> We haven't meet our goal to discuss all the topics in this meeting, I'll continue the discussion on the 
  mailing list.
<Ben> BTW: will HKLUG charge ??
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<hkv2> # Appears as XENO.
<hkv2> (#G1::E010M1) hi
<vincent> Hi???
<hkv2> (#G4<:E910M1) i'm from hk
<vincent> Who're you? :)
<vincent> Are you Linux user?
<hkv2> (#G810E;10M1) v2
<hkv2> (#G910E<10M1) ....no
<vincent> o.... well.. in this channel we're discussing Linux.
<hkv2> (#G;10E010M1) is there a problem?
<vincent> yes, we're having our meeting on Linux. Linux is a UNIX-like operating system, are you interested?
<hkv2> (#G=10E910M1) sure
<vincent> Are you Computer Major?
<hkv2> (#G010E;10M1) not really
<vincent> Please contact me by e-mail, it is: vincent@aibi.net, I'll provide further information on Linux for you.
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<hkv2> (#G4<:E<10M1) i'm a young user
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<vincent> oo .. ok, may you join other channels? We are having our meeting for our group.
<hkv2> (#G810E010M1) ok..
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<vincent> OK la...
<voidoo> all gone
<vincent> I've uploaded what we've discussed in this meeting into our homepage. You can use it for reference.
<vincent> Please provide further guidelines or ideas on our yearly plans, if possible, on the mailing list. I'll 
  also prepare a better formatted version on the announcement.
<vincent> Wew... lots of workz....
<Dennis> excuse me.
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<voidoo> left is like that
<vincent> Also need to contact the committee members to discuss our working schedules, and the time management 
  between us... X-(
<voidoo> so it is not an easy work
<vincent> YESSSSSSSSSSSS.... 
<[DoM]> :O
<voidoo> this is the diff between group admin and computer admin
<vincent> But I seems already take up this work since the group is going to form.. :)
<vincent> I'm interested to manage these days. :P
<voidoo> you may enjoy computer admin, but group/human admin ..........
<vincent> I'm also interested...
<G-Force> group admin is so hard....
<vincent> Ok la.... I need to goto prepare all these workz, see you in the mailing list! If you still have any 
  ideas, please record down for me and told me. (Other than those in my #004 report on the web).
<vincent> Time, Resources management, defining goals, set priorities, etc...
<G-Force> end of meeting ? time for chat now?
<vincent> Yes ok, enjoy. I'll go.. :(
<vincent> Remember to check:
<[DoM]> :)
<vincent> http://www.animenet.com.hk/hklug/meetings/report/004-report.txt
<voidoo> of course
<G-Force> voidoo, you buy the bat book?
<voidoo> hoooooooooooo (laugh in a ugly voice)
Session Close: Sat Dec 06 22:46:04 1997